Dr. Darren Wheelock is, among other things, a criminal justice professor at Marquette University who has studied recidivism for a number of years. We spoke about the way this widely accepted barometer of success or failure in criminal justice programs and funding is misleading to say the least. Not only is it defined differently in states across the county but many of the ways it is defined overstate the issue or understate it considerably. We also touch on the new Education Preparedness Program at Marquette blending incarcerated and non-incarcerated college students.